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180 holiday 90 rule homes

Holiday homes 90/180 rule
#1
It has been reported that Boris will not challenge the 90/180 rule.  Which means if you don't have residency you can only stay for 90 days every 180 days in an EU country.   If you have residency you must stay a minimum 183.   Not sure if this will effect some people but imagine it will.
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#2
That means all residents will have to pay taxes to Spain if I understand correctly, right? I'm sure this will affect many people on the island. Thanks for bringing it up, Si Tie.

Is that already written in stone or should we wait for the Brexit or whatever they call it now?
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#3
It has always been the case that virtually all residents (those without very good and relatively unusual reasons linked to business focus etc) should be paying their taxes in Spain. Contrary to popular belief, in the eyes of the Hacienda there has never been a distinction between residents and fiscal residents.

Those who are registered as residents in any shape whatsoever but do not pay their taxes in Spain need to be very sure they know what they are doing. Run-ins with the Hacienda can be very costly and they are only going to increase, quite possibly retrospectively.

Asking so-called “local experts” is not enough as misinformation is rife. It all starts from the spurious notion that applying for residency after a 90 day stay is somehow different to declaring one’s desire to be fully resident. It is not.

The correct information is out there, but it is nowhere near as clear and explicit as it should be. I would certainly suggest people in this position do their own research. 

From 2021 the movements of Brits in and out of Spain will be much clearer due to passports being scanned and stamped. Any non-permanent resident who a) does not pay their taxes in Spain and b) leaves Spain for more than 183 days will automatically lose their residency status as they are manifestly not actually resident at all.

In fact this rule has always been in place but, because British passports have not been stamped and scanned for many years, all the Spanish authorities could do is assume that because a person did not officially de-register as a resident (in precisely the same way as they registered in the first place) then they must always have been resident !

This clearly has retrospective consequences for the years prior to 2021, and historical plane tickets and other travel documentation is unlikely to prove anything in a Spanish court.

My experience of having these discussions with people in person is that my comments often go down like a bucket of cold sick, and no doubt it will be the same here too.

My only advice would be to Do Your Own Research.
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#4
(02-12-2020, 05:17 PM)FVmouse Wrote: It has always been the case that virtually all residents (those without very good and relatively unusual reasons linked to business focus etc) should be paying their taxes in Spain. Contrary to popular belief, in the eyes of the Hacienda there has never been a distinction between residents and fiscal residents.

Those who are registered as residents in any shape whatsoever but do not pay their taxes in Spain need to be very sure they know what they are doing. Run-ins with the Hacienda can be very costly and they are only going to increase, quite possibly retrospectively.

Asking so-called “local experts” is not enough as misinformation is rife. It all starts from the spurious notion that applying for residency after a 90 day stay is somehow different to declaring one’s desire to be fully resident. It is not.

The correct information is out there, but it is nowhere near as clear and explicit as it should be. I would certainly suggest people in this position do their own research. 

From 2021 the movements of Brits in and out of Spain will be much clearer due to passports being scanned and stamped. Any non-permanent resident who a) does not pay their taxes in Spain and b) leaves Spain for more than 183 days will automatically lose their residency status as they are manifestly not actually resident at all.

In fact this rule has always been in place but, because British passports have not been stamped and scanned for many years, all the Spanish authorities could do is assume that because a person did not officially de-register as a resident (in precisely the same way as they registered in the first place) then they must always have been resident !

This clearly has retrospective consequences for the years prior to 2021, and historical plane tickets and other travel documentation is unlikely to prove anything in a Spanish court.

My experience of having these discussions with people in person is that my comments often go down like a bucket of cold sick, and no doubt it will be the same here too.

My only advice would be to Do Your Own Research.

You have summarised the situation very well.
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#5
I thought the rules were to stay more than 90 days any one trip you needed residency and if you stayed more than 180 days in a year you needed fiscal residency.
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#6
That is what many people think, and it would be great if it were true. But don’t confuse what you want to be true with reality. Unfortunately for those who want the benefits of residency without the associated costs (all of us I would imagine) there really is only one type of residency.

It is often well documented on here and elsewhere how one goes about registering for residency. What gets zero coverage is the reverse process of de-registering when it becomes clear that one doesn’t wish to be regarded as fiscally resident. Currently, without such active de-registration, the default position of the Hacienda is clear.

Once up and running the Spanish border IT system should make the need for de-registration unnecessary as this will happen automatically.

As I say, bucket of cold sick....

DYOR
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#7
As someone who spent a lot of time moving between countries including being a tax resident in multiple, I learned a simple rule (the hard way).

183 Days per annum in one place? That is your primary tax residency for the year.

BUT
It does not mean it is your ONLY tax residency for the year.

Most countries will tax based on your Worldwide income for the year.

Some countries will apply additional rules, meaning that if you earn any income while you are physically there, then you must make a local tax declaration. (Germany for example).

Luckily there are "Double Taxation" treaties between almost all EU Countries.
This means that you MUST declare your taxes via an annual tax declaration in ALL countries you reside in, but there is an additional form to fill in declaring that you have already paid the tax in another country.
If you need to pay any additional tax to one country vs another (due to different income tax rates) you will need to make separate payments to separate governments.

It gets complicated quickly - and there is no simple equation to use.

# of days does not really apply to much - and YOU MUST consult with a tax consultant who is knowledgable in matters of cross-EU tax residency. Certain Residency types in certain countries are dependant on you being a tax resident there (Portugal for e.g)

Pensions may be classed differently, but you still need a consultation and to have the proper annual filings made - even if they are just for €0.



P.S. I have Germany chasing my ass for the year 2020 (This Year), even though I completely de-registered from Germany on 31.12.2019. Their claim is that I still have clients in Germany, that I have traveled to for business this year, and thus they do not accept that I have "Left" the country.
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#8
So even after officially de-registering from Germany they are still chasing you. Food for thought IMO....
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#9
This article explains it

Schengen area rules

https://eeas.europa.eu/sites/eeas/files/...aqs_en.pdf
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#10
As I understand things, after 1st January any EU citizen wishing to spend time in the U.K. will be subject to the 180 in 360 rule whereas U.K. citizens in the EU will be subject to the 90 in 180 rule.

The U.K. government has been asked to fight for equality in this regard but has not bothered. No surprise there.

The 90 in 180 rule is pretty restrictive. If one wishes to spend the maximum amount of time allowed in the Schengen Area then whatever pattern of trips is chosen during the first 180 days must be repeated 180 days later. So for instance, spending February on the island means that August must be spent on the island too.

The 180 in 360 day rule offers so much more seasonal flexibility.
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