Holiday homes 90/180 rule

[Ducks]

If one wishes to spend the maximum amount of time allowed in the Schengen Area then whatever pattern of trips is chosen during the first 180 days must be repeated 180 days later. So for instance, spending February on the island means that August must be spent on the island too.

This is the maddest thing I've ever read. In what world does this benefit anyone at all?!

[FVmouse]

The delicious irony is that Boris wants to prevent freedom of movement but offers more relaxed rules for EU citizens in the U.K. than those available in reverse. And he doesn’t even realise let alone give a *****.

This government will make foreign travel harder and harder for U.K. residents. Staycations will be encouraged if not quite enforced to recoup furlough and QE via VAT. It will become one’s patriotic duty to go to Blackpool for a week.

[FVmouse]

Hi FV,
I don’t think that is correct as I understand it. It will be (max 90 days stay, in reality 88 days as travelling are included) Then same 90 days out before you can return to Schengen area.
So effectively 90 in, 90 out & so on but don’t have to be the same sub division, ie, you could stay say 60 days & have another 30 left but your next 90 would run from the time your previous 90 started 😁
Clear as mud 🤣😂
I would recommend anyone trying to maximise the time allowed use a Schengen app to work it all out.
It would be much better if the Schengen area adapted its ruling to allow up to 180 days in one block as I hear Portugal are proposing to do 😁😁

90 in, 90 out, 60 in, 60 out, 30 in, 30 out 

works for one year but cannot be repeated the following year as 30 in, 30 out, 90 in does not work.

To make the first half of the second year work it has to agree with the second half of the first year. Then to make the second half of the second year work it has to agree with the first half. 

So by at the latest 1 July 2021 the cycle must start and keep repeating. Basically what I said.

Think about it. It’s quite neat if all rather depressing and surprisingly limiting.

February and August are linked by the pattern etc etc. Many would like to spend February in the sun, less so August. But if one removes August from one’s schedule to avoid the heat then February is also a non-starter.

[FVmouse]

To add to my post above, IMO one of the better patterns is 45 in, 45 out, 45 in, 45 out starting on about 10th December and 10th June each year.

[Will]

It's a rolling 180 day period. Just count back 180 days. If you've been in the zone for more than 90 days you've been bad. 

The fact it's a rolling 180 days means in theory you can come back once 1 day has rolled off. That means if Jan 1st you come for ninety days  you can come back in ninety one days (to be safe) 

The UK and Ireland has always had a six month rule. There is nothing new here. Of course not many EU nationals vacation for six months in the UK. They move to live.

On the tax issue. Remember the Spanish rules are the Spanish rules. 183 days is way down the tie breaker list. If you have a home and most of your ties are with the UK the UK will consider you tax resident. 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicatio...t-srt-rdr3

Those are the UK rules.

What all that means is if you fit both the Spanish rules and the UK rules you need to look at the tiebreakers in the treaty. But if I need to tell you that you need to get professional help.

[MB30]

I am hoping that the EU will go down the route of electronic visas for U.K. citizens who come for non working reasons, ie tourist.
A free 90 day max stay visa, and if you require a longer stay, you pay extra. This is what happens in Australia and works well for tourists and brings in some extra income as well. Although I  don’t own a house there I am able to operate an Australian Bank account and stay there as long as I want with relatives.

[Ducks]

I am hoping that the EU will go down the route of electronic visas for U.K. citizens who come for non working reasons, ie tourist.
A free 90 day max stay visa, and if you require a longer stay, you pay extra. This is what happens in Australia and works well for tourists and brings in some extra income as well. Although I  don’t own a house there I am able to operate an Australian Bank account and stay there as long as I want with relatives.

I had no idea they operated such a system! How long is the maximum period you can pay to stay for?

[FVmouse]

It's a rolling 180 day period. Just count back 180 days. If you've been in the zone for more than 90 days you've been bad. 

The fact it's a rolling 180 days means in theory you can come back once 1 day has rolled off. That means if Jan 1st you come for ninety days  you can come back in ninety one days (to be safe) 

The UK and Ireland has always had a six month rule. There is nothing new here. Of course not many EU nationals vacation for six months in the UK. They move to live.

On the tax issue. Remember the Spanish rules are the Spanish rules. 183 days is way down the tie breaker list. If you have a home and most of your ties are with the UK the UK will consider you tax resident. 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicatio...t-srt-rdr3

Those are the UK rules.

What all that means is if you fit both the Spanish rules and the UK rules you need to look at the tiebreakers in the treaty. But if I need to tell you that you need to get professional help.

Any UK nationals wishing to max out their Schengen allowance can only do it by following the patterns as outlined. That way the days roll off just in time. Just an observation as to how it works if one wishes to spend the maximum number of days inside Schengen.

I didn’t say there was anything new in the U.K. 6 month rule, I said it was less restrictive than that afforded to UK nationals inside Schengen from next year. Ironic at best, despotic at worst that Boris ends up restricting the freedom of movement of U.K. nationals more than EU ones.

On tax, everybody should do their own research as it is important to get right. Don’t believe me or anyone else on bulletin boards. Equally don’t believe people who have vested interests such as local fixers and the like.

IMO it is much safer to make a decision, UK or Spanish fiscal resident and do nothing to blur that line.

[FVmouse]

I am hoping that the EU will go down the route of electronic visas for U.K. citizens who come for non working reasons, ie tourist.
A free 90 day max stay visa, and if you require a longer stay, you pay extra. This is what happens in Australia and works well for tourists and brings in some extra income as well. Although I  don’t own a house there I am able to operate an Australian Bank account and stay there as long as I want with relatives.

Check out the Spanish Non-Lucrative Visa. Could well be the future for those unwilling to become tax resident just yet.

[Will]

IMO it is much safer to make a decision, UK or Spanish fiscal resident and do nothing to blur that line.

Not blurring the line means  not having a home in the UK or elsewhere. Not ever visiting the UK. At least for a few years.

If people are willing to do that then it's simple. The problem are the people that want to keep a foot in both