Coronavirus in Fuerteventura - Discussion

[OMR + MIN]

Is it wrong for us to point this out to the non compliant ones? 

Just get abuse back?

Annoyed but a bit wary.

[Ducks]

Is it wrong for us to point this out to the non compliant ones? 

Just get abuse back?

Annoyed but a bit wary.

It's not wrong, but I would be very hesitant to do so. 

With notices on every shopfront and masks on most people you'll see, I think it's very much not a case of ignorance or forgetfulness most of the time. Someone who is prepared to disregard:

1. What's in the best interest of their own physical health
2. The health and well-being of those in their community, and 
3. The actual law

is, IMO, highly unlikely to respond well to a stranger telling or even asking them to behave within the confines of the law. 

It might be unkind, but I do draw assumptions about someone who deliberately refuses to wear a mask in public spaces under the current conditions, and those assumptions aren't positive. So, I would not anticipate a positive response and would be fearful of harm or reprisal, as these people have already indicated they're not afraid of very obviously breaking the law. Instead of trying to talk to them, I just give them the widest possible physical berth and hope they eventually get so fed up of being treated like a leper that they fall in line. 


For the record: I do appreciate that the risk of catching COVID from passing someone on the street is insanely low, but I also believe it's extremely important to establish mask-wearing as a norm and an absolute necessity until this pandemic is over with. Going out without one needs to be as unacceptable as going out without your trousers... Which is something else you only wear because it's considered socially unacceptable to be without them. Even the anti-mask brigade who believe there's no benefit to wearing masks manage to put those on every day!

So yes, while I agree social condemnation is important, I wouldn't verbally engage because I do think you'll only get abuse. Instead, consider socially distant social censure! 

[Si Tie]

My observation of people who don't wear a mask are also the same people who don't social distance.  
Some people don't care and never will.  Some are just ignorant,  thankfully they are in the minority

[OMR + MIN]

Is it wrong for us to point this out to the non compliant ones? 

Just get abuse back?

Annoyed but a bit wary.

It's not wrong, but I would be very hesitant to do so. 

With notices on every shopfront and masks on most people you'll see, I think it's very much not a case of ignorance or forgetfulness most of the time. Someone who is prepared to disregard:

1. What's in the best interest of their own physical health
2. The health and well-being of those in their community, and 
3. The actual law

is, IMO, highly unlikely to respond well to a stranger telling or even asking them to behave within the confines of the law. 

It might be unkind, but I do draw assumptions about someone who deliberately refuses to wear a mask in public spaces under the current conditions, and those assumptions aren't positive. So, I would not anticipate a positive response and would be fearful of harm or reprisal, as these people have already indicated they're not afraid of very obviously breaking the law. Instead of trying to talk to them, I just give them the widest possible physical berth and hope they eventually get so fed up of being treated like a leper that they fall in line. 


For the record: I do appreciate that the risk of catching COVID from passing someone on the street is insanely low, but I also believe it's extremely important to establish mask-wearing as a norm and an absolute necessity until this pandemic is over with. Going out without one needs to be as unacceptable as going out without your trousers... Which is something else you only wear because it's considered socially unacceptable to be without them. Even the anti-mask brigade who believe there's no benefit to wearing masks manage to put those on every day!

So yes, while I agree social condemnation is important, I wouldn't verbally engage because I do think you'll only get abuse. Instead, consider socially distant social censure! 

Thanks Ducks.

I'll keep it to myself. 

[Pub the Shack]

Ducks - I think you need to be less paranoid and less judgmental. You say that the risk of catching COVID is insanely low from someone not wearing a mask in the street then go on to say that we must wear masks! Why? Talk of the “non compliant ones” is also very disturbing!

[windermeregolfer]

And it is not just the tourist that seem to disregard the law it locals (Spanish) as well, yesterday within 100mts of our villa we had 2 parties going on with more that 10 people at each and one the noise went on until after 2am 😡😡😡

[Jason W]

Ducks - I think you need to be less paranoid and less judgmental. You say that the risk of catching COVID is insanely low from someone not wearing a mask in the street then go on to say that we must wear masks! Why? Talk of the “non compliant ones” is also very disturbing!

I personally believe you would have better compliance where needed if you were not forced to wear masks whilst walking along empty public spaces.

[Ducks]

Ducks - I think you need to be less paranoid and less judgmental. You say that the risk of catching COVID is insanely low from someone not wearing a mask in the street then go on to say that we must wear masks! Why? Talk of the “non compliant ones” is also very disturbing!

Because non-compliance is a slippery slope.

"Oh, I'm just running to the bins so I don't need one."
"Oh, I don't need to wear it until I get to the local shop."
"Oh, I don't really need it in the shop if it's empty."
"Oh, I forgot to put one one leaving the house, so I won't bother wearing it in the supermarket."

Wearing a mask is the law. Not wearing a mask is breaking that law. I'm using the term "non-compliant ones" in place of "criminals who do not care if they infect others with a potentially lethal virus".

I believe we need to be more judgemental on this issue, not less. It is not a matter of personal choice or belief, but one of public safety and community health. It's akin to seatbelt use or workplace smoking, not style of dress or religion. When your choice actively harms the health of others, it's fair to judge that choice. 

If people had been more judgmental and refused to spend time around people who weren't wearing masks, the number of people who died of COVID this year would probably not be the insanely high 1.3 million that it is today. We may not have needed to institute the on/off lockdowns that are destroying businesses and livelihoods in the UK and Ireland, either. Mask-wearing and social distancing are highly effective in keeping the virus from spreading, and it is essential we do that if we don't want the lockdowns to keep happening, and our hospitals to be overrun with COVID patients, which causes a glut of problems. 

People will always bend the law, so if you make a law that isn't very harsh ("only in shops", etc.), you will see the same rate of non-compliance, but it will have a greater impact. It also puts an undue burden on shopkeepers, restaurants, etc. to enforce these laws when they have no manpower to do so, and are potentially so desperate for business that they can't afford to alienate customers. When there is a blanket law, it is easier to enforce as someone not wearing a mask is in violation before they reach the place they are going, so the onus isn't exclusively on the businesses.

[Ducks]

I believe you don't have to wear a mask whilst walking along empty public spaces. At least I don't, unless someone is approaching and we wouldn't be able to keep a safe distance. My interpretation of the rules might be wrong and I'm one of the irresponsible ones 🤔🙈🙊

From this article on The Canary News in August: 

The Canary Islands Extraordinary Governing Council meeting held  Thursday morning (August 13, 2020) has agreed to approve a series of health measures seeking to contain the current outbreaks on the islands. At the request of the Spanish Ministry of Health, they approved mandatory use of masks, both in open outdoor spaces as well as closed indoor spaces, irregardless of whether the prescribed 1.5 meter safety distance can be maintained. 

I can't find anything to suggest that's been changed/lifted, but it's possible I missed a development as there have been so many rapid changes in recent months.

[Ducks]

I wouldn't try that in a town, Sam, but I'm sure you'd be fine outside of one.

The thing about the "mask always" law for high-traffic public spaces is that:

1. it will prevent vapour from landing on communal surfaces like hand-railings and walls, and
2. it will make sure people can't show up at places (shops, restaurants, etc) saying "I left it at home", because they weren't supposed to leave their property without one, and
3. they're so damned inconvenient that you will avoid unnecessary trips if you have to wear the blasted thing.

It will decrease movements and opportunities for community transmission, and increase the chances of people always having one on them if they know they can get stopped by the Police on the street at any time.

Again: I hate wearing the things. I live in a town, so I have to wear one every time I am outside of our home which is a pain in the unmentionables. I wear glasses, as well, which fog up all the time. It's incredibly annoying. I'm not some masked bandit who loves having a piece of paper rubbing all over my face all day. I just know wearing one keeps me safer than not wearing one, and that wearing one reduces my chances of killing somebody's granny.

I am very much a fan of personal choice, generally speaking. I don't like seeing people's freedoms taken away. But in this instance, your freedom could kill someone else. I've heard people say, "Well, if you're afraid, stay home." That's fine, and I have been, but I still need to get groceries and other essential items, and I need to take exercise. I could still need non-COVID-related medical attention. In all of those instances, the people who don't wear the masks and don't follow the rules increase my chances of contracting a deadly illness and dying. 

That's why it's not just a personal choice, and staying at home isn't enough to protect yourself. You need the help of others to stay protected, too. We all have to fight this thing to beat it; some of us staying home won't get the job done. 

Compliance is important, the same as complying with all the other laws in place to protect ourselves and others. I cannot drive down the FV2 at 200 miles an hour because I might plow into someone and kill them. I can't throw knives into the air wildly in the town square because they could land in somebody's head. I can't smoke in a nightclub, or keep a pet tiger, or buy a private airplane and fly it without training. This is no different. All of the laws against such things had to be brought in bit by bit in response to new situations, updated information, and increased threats.

Human life does, and always has and will, involve the curtailing of personal freedom for the public good. This is a temporary measure that we can all comply with to do our bit to improve the chances of life going back to something like normal: being able to plan your trips here and back without worrying if either end will be in lockdown, being able to walk down the street without seeing half the shops closed, seeing friends and family without wondering if you're harming them with your presence. It just makes me sad that people are allowing the fact that governments around the world fouled up the message early on that wearing a mask protects yourself and others, and that people aren't prepared to live with a mild inconvenience to try to bring this virus to heel so that we can all go back to living proper lives. 

...But I'll get off my soapbox now; I've said all I can. This issue is just very important to me as I am so fed up with living under COVID restrictions, and masks are a quick short-cut to getting the infection rate down everywhere so we can get back some normality in our lives.